Calling someone dead takes courage. It's not enough to cock your head, screw up your nose and say "Are you dead?" or "I think you're dead." You cannot expect an opponent to hang their head in shame and say, "Yes, I am." No one is obligated to declare herself dead, nor should she be.
If you look at the photograph above (sorry for the fuzzy focus) you will see four seven cracks and three greens exposed. Is she dead? What do you think?
To confidently make a death call you first need to know what hand is being played. Could there be more than one possibility? Rose has three seven cracks and three greens exposed. Hmm...look at the card. Only one hand it could be. What tiles does she need? A pair, maybe? A pair of what? Oh, I know. Seven dots. Are they out? Let me look at the table. Ooo, there's two out. Agh, I have one. What should I do? If I throw it she may mahj. If she doesn't mahj, she's dead. If I keep it, I can't mahj. Aaaagghhh.... You throw the seven dot. You've killed her. No one says anything. Rose frowns almost imperceptibly, but then stays poker-faced. Myrna picks. Myrna throws. Rose is dead. You know she's dead. She knows she's dead. Maybe Myrna and Shirley know, but they aren't acting like they know.. Wait, you think. Is she really dead? Yes, she is. Maybe there's another hand? There's no other hand. Okay, just say it.
"You're dead. Three seven dots are out."
This would be the time for Rose to admit defeat and cease playing. If she doesn't and merely scoffs at your accusation, insisting her hand has every possibility of being a winner, then you must play till the end and if she can't prove you wrong, she must pay you $.25.
Now, about those jokers. There is much confusion about taking jokers from a dead hand. After all, the hand is dead, right? Shouldn't the jokers be dead, too? The answer is no...and the answer is yes.
If her exposures contained jokers before the hand went dead, then, yes, those jokers can be taken.
But if the exposure caused her hand to go dead then, no, they can't be taken. In fact, the League recommends that an exposure that causes a hand to go dead should be returned to the rack so there is no confusion. In the hand above, if there were jokers in those exposures they would still be good, because they were good at the time they were exposed. In other words, the hand is dead, but the jokers are still alive, wiggling and shimmering and screaming "take me, take me." A dead hand is like a body you step over on the battlefield. The soldier is dead, but you can still take his gun and boots and move ahead to victory.
What happens in the case as follows: Player makes a second exposure which results in no hands existing on the card that can use that combination or is only a combination of a closed hand. She is declared dead and accepts she is dead. If jokers were put out on first exposure prior to known dead hand, are they still alive? If jokers on second exposure , which determined the dead hand, are they now dead (and should probably be re-racked)? If she accept being dead, is there any penalty-i.e. paying $.25.
ReplyDeleteIf the first exposure had jokers, those jokers may still be exchanged. The exposure that made her dead should go back in the rack so there is no confusion. The first exposure stays out. If the player admits to being dead, she does not continue playing, and there is no further penalty. If she disputes that she is dead, then play continues. At the end of the game, she must state what hand she was playing at the time of the declaration. If she was dead, she must pay the person who called her dead 25 cents. If she was not dead, the person who called her dead pays her .25 This is in addition to whatever the winner is paid.
DeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteIf a player asks another player if her hand is dead and it isn't, does the asking player incur a penalty?
ReplyDeletef a player challenges a hand, the player who is challenged must either admit that her hand is dead and stop playing or deny that her hand is dead, in which case she does not have to prove why she believes her hand is still good. She continues to play until the end of the game. If at the end of the game it turns out that she was really dead at the time of the challenge, she must pay the challenger .25 cents. If it turns out that she was not dead after all (she must show that she was not dead), then the challenger pays her .25 cents.
DeleteWhen playing MJ with 3 people and two players have dead hands is the remaining player the winner (collect money from bets)?
ReplyDeleteIt depends on how the other players went dead. If someone declared mahjongg in error, and the other player threw in her tiles, then the remaining player gets paid twice the value of her hand by the person who declared mahjongg in error. However, if the players went dead for any other reason, then the game ceases and no one gets paid.
Deleteis it the same rule if playing with 4 people and 3 have dead hands
DeleteYes. When playing with four - if one player declares mahjongg in error and the other two players throw in their hands, the player who declared pays the last player standing twice the value of the hand of the player who declared mahjongg in error. If the players went dead for any other reason, the game ceases and no one gets paid.
DeleteWhen declaring a person dead, is she dead even before she discards her tile?
ReplyDeleteThis was a very big bone of contention playing with my fellow players last week It turned into a huge argument The player even admitted she was dead after another player declared her dead She was playing a closed hand and called, then put up 3 Souths. I also declared her dead Then another player stated she was not dead because she hadn't discarded yet and she could have still taken back the tiles until she discarded BUT she had already been declared dead I know that the player who stated she wasn't dead hates for anyone to be declared dead because then the tiles left in the players hand and not revealed are dead
If we played a polite game, then when I exposed an extra tile on my rack by mistake, and they would not let me take it back, I felt as if we were not playing a friendly game and whats good for one is good for the other I hope I have explained this without confusion
Once the player exposed three souths, she could not "take back" the exposure. If she had another south or joker in her hand she could have added it to her exposure before she discarded. However, she did not do that. She was declared dead and she accepted the challenge. The challenge is between the player who makes the challenge and the player who is challenged. Other players should not weigh in. That said, however, it is best to wait until a player discards before challenging the hand, lest she think a bit more and change the exposure before accepting the challenge.
DeleteAs to the second part of your question, if you exposed more tiles than you intended in your exposure, you are allowed to make an adjustment before you discard. You may add to to subtract from the exposure. This is an official rule. Playing by the official rules should make for a friendly game, and if disputes arise the rules should be consulted or the National Mah Jongg League called for a ruling.
we have a player that figures out another players hand and announces it to everyone should she do this?
ReplyDeleteWhile there is no written official rule prohibiting this, it is discourteous to make such an announcement, on a number of levels. Firstly, she could be wrong! Second, it may, and probably would cheat the player whose hand she announces out of a win. If the other players were unaware of the hand or thought she was playing something else, they might make different decisions about what to throw. It also cheats players out of a learning opportunity to figure things out for themselves. Your group needs to discuss this with the offending player, as it's really not fair. It's one thing if you're an instructor playing with a group of newbies, but quite another, and somewhat condescending, if you are playing with players who already know how to play.
DeleteThank You.
DeleteHere's a situation that came up recently. One player called for a flower to make a pair and declared mah jongg. As she exposed her hand, she realized that she had too many tiles and declared herself dead. The question arose as to whether or not another player could call the flower that the first player called for her pair in error. In other words, was that flower still a live tile?
ReplyDeleteIt was already on the players rack as part of the pair she thought would give her mah jongg.
Thanks for your advice on this matter.
The League has ruled that if a player calls a tile and exposes mahjongg in error, then that tile stays with the dead hand. However, if the tile was called by two players who needed it for mahjongg, then the tile can be claimed by the second player for her mahjongg only. (Not just exposure).
Deleteafter 2 exposures, the player realized she was playing a "closed" hand. Can she declare herself to be "dead'?
ReplyDeleteA player should not declare herself dead. It is up to other players at the table to verify that a hand is dead. If there is another hand she could be playing then she is not dead. If other players say that the only hand she could be playing is concealed then, yes, the hand is dead and the player ceases to pick and discard.
DeletePlayer was declared dead AFTER play went around table and after she exposed - with a joker that exposure.
ReplyDeleteSo the dead hand and joker were not declared immediately. Can that joker be taken?
Mah Jongg Made Easy, page 24, paragraph 17 (2020 edition) states: "If an incorrect exposure results in a "dead hand," but it is not realized until later in a game, jokers in that exposure are not available for redemption."
DeleteI am still not clear on taking jokers from an exposed dead hand. Player one exposed 4, 5 cracks, one of which was a joker for the kong. On the next round, same player called mah jongg and happily exposed her hand! (We were all so excited because she is a newbie!) But alas, she used a joker in a pair, (she forgot the rule) and we all called her hand dead. Play resumed with the other 3 remaining players. One of those players picked up a 5 crack on her next turn and wanted to exchange it from the dead hand. Remember, the 4, 5 cracks were exposed during a turn PRIOR to the hand being declared dead. Can the other player exchange the 5 crack for a joker? Thanks in advance for your response!
ReplyDeleteThe joker in the 5 crak kong may be redeemed after the hand was declared dead. The best way to do it is once the hand is declared dead, whichever tiles were exposed previously should remain atop the rack, while any other tiles should be returned to the sloping part of the rack and the player stops playing. The only exception to this would be is if a player declared mahjongg on a concealed hand and it turned out she had made an exposure that should not have been made (since the hand was concealed) then ALL tiles go back into the sloping part of the rack and no jokers can be redeemed. Hope this helps!
DeleteAnother joker redeeming question...a player called for mahjong and exposed all her tiles at once as she had not made any prior exposures. (Not a closed hand). Every tile except one element, the last, was incorrect. She put out a pung of 8 dots and it should have been a pung of 7 bams. The pung of 8's contained a joker. Can any of her jokers be swapped out by remaining players on subsequent turns or, are all her tiles dead? Thank you!
ReplyDeleteHello - only exposures that were already on top of the rack before the hand went dead are eligible for joker redemption. Since no exposures were previously made before mahjongg in error was declared, no jokers are available. Sorry!
DeleteIf a player declares maj and she is playing a concealed hand and calls foe a tile and displays the tile she called for and later declares maj. since her hand is dead, can you call for her jokers?
ReplyDeleteAccording to the League (Mahjongg Made Easy 2020 page 24) - No jokers exposred prior to a concealed hand being declared dead are redeemable, since they were part of an incorrect exposure.
Delete