This got me thinking about the difference between a call and a claim. The call signifies your intention to claim the tile, and the League has clarified that you must verbalize your call. The tile is claimed when you have either exposed or placed the called tile atop your rack. The League states in "Mah Jongg Made Easy," - the "call" or "take" has become the claimant's turn. (1984, 2018)
There's been some brouhaha going on about this being conducive to "aggressive" play. After all, if one is committed to taking the discard, it precludes the player next in turn from waking up and saying, "Oh, gee, I wanted that flower." The argument is that someone who is paying attention and ready to call will "slam" their tiles atop the rack in a display of sharklike rudeness. Poppycock. Why would this be more likely to happen than an alert player snatching the discard from the table and slamming it atop the rack?
Here is an analogy: In scenario A, a person orders printer ink from Amazon. She pays by credit card. It's delivered to her door the next day. In scenario B, she goes to Staples for her ink, which is kept behind the counter. She tells the cashier what she wants. The cashier hands her the ink and takes her money. In both scenarios, she owns the ink.
An exposure is the price you pay for a discard. Does it matter if you pay in advance (expose first and then take the discard) or take the discard first and then expose? I say no. In either case, the tile is claimed. The player next in turn is TOO LATE. (2013)
Can someone explain to us newbies, what are neutral tiles? Are Winds, Flowers played like Jokers?
ReplyDeleteThe term "neutral" in NMJL mahjongg means that the tile is not affiliated with a suit. Flowers and Winds are neutral, so you can have hands with flowers and winds and any suit tiles. Dragons are not suit neutral. Reds match with craks, greens with bams and whites (soaps) with dots. There is one exception, however, and that is when a soap is used as a zero (in 2019). When soap is used as a zero it is neutral and may be used with any suit.
DeleteThe reply didn’t answer the question….are neutral tiles used as jokers? You can use them with any suit but to do what?
DeleteNo, neutral tiles are not used as jokers. A neutral tile means it is not affiliated with a suit. You can use them in a hand that uses them with any suit. I'm not really sure what you are asking.
DeleteThank you for this post on the topic of claiming discards. Do you mind if I run a couple of scenarios by you to verify that I understand correctly?
ReplyDelete1) Player A says "call", then picks up the discard, but has not yet placed it on the rack or exposed any tiles. Player B (who is closer in line) realizes they want the tile and says "call". My understanding is that Player A must relinquish the discard to Player B, simply because Player B is closer in line. Is this correct so far?
2) Player A says "call", then picks up the discard, but has not yet placed it on the rack or exposed any tiles. Player B (who is NOT necessarily closer in line) says "call" and quickly exposes one or more tiles on their rack. In this case also, Player A must relinquish the tile to player B because Player B was the first to expose. Is this correct? If so, I'd like to know if this would normally be considered a breach of etiquette or not.
Thank you so much for your wonderful blog! I am new to mahjong but have learned a lot from your site already.
Margaret
Scenario 1 is considered a simultaneous call, even though Player A picked up the discard. Next in turn (Player B in this case) is entitled to the tile.
DeleteAs to Scenario 2, more information is needed to properly answer this question. Did this situation actually happen or is this a hypothetical question? Did both players say "call" at the same time? Did Player B put her tiles up before she said "call," while saying "call" or did she put her tiles up after saying "call"? It makes a difference in terms of whether the call was simultaneous. One of them was next in line, was it A or B? Did the players argue about which one was entitled to the tile? What did they think? Hypothetical questions are very interesting to contemplate, as there are sometimes situations when rules conflict. If the players cannot reach a resolution then they may have to contact the National Mah Jongg League and have them make a ruling.
Actually, in rereading your question where you say Player A has picked up the tile but did not place it on top of her rack and Player B and exposed tiles and they are on top of their rack, in that case, yes, Player B would be entitled to the tile since it has been claimed. Player A has not yet claimed the tile because she is still holding it in her hand. I misread the scenario to say they had both placed the tiles on top of their rack, in which case both would have been claimed and that would require a ruling from the League! Sorry for the misunderstanding.
DeleteThank you, I think I understand now. To summarize: As long as the second caller exposes their tiles before the first caller does, they can claim the discard (regardless of whether they are next in line). Do I have it right?
DeleteI'm sorry, but that is not right. I will put the terms "first caller" and "second caller" in quotes, as those are not terms used by the League.
DeleteIf "first caller" calls for a discard and then "second caller" calls for the same discard, the player next in line is entitled to the tile. Nobody has claimed the tile by picking up the discard and placing it on their rack or exposing tiles from their hand. This is what usually happens.
If "first caller" calls for a discard, picks up the discard or makes an exposure, and then "second caller" calls for the discard, "second caller" is too late as the tile has already been claimed by the first caller. This happens occasionally.
If, as in your scenario, "first caller" calls for a disard and then "second caller" calls for a discard, and "second caller" picks up the discard and places it on their rack or exposes tiles from their hand, they would be entitled to the tile ONLY if they were next in line, as it would be considered a simultaneous call. Frankly, I have never seen this happen, but a new player may get overly excited and make a grab for the tile, thinking that it's a race to expose, which it is not, and aggressive play is not encouraged.
Advise your students that if someone calls for a discard and they are the second caller, they should not rush to expose or grab the discard off the table, but wait to determine who is next in line.
That makes sense to me and also seems like a much more civilized way to play! Thank you so much for your help.
DeleteI am a member of a chain of rec centers that is establishing a mahjong program in several locations. Since there are many new players trying to understand the rules, this question comes up almost every time we play. No one has gotten upset (yet, haha), and we are trying to make the rules as clear as possible precisely to avoid conflicts.
ReplyDeleteWould it be correct to say that once Player A has said "call", it is too late for Player B to say "call" UNLESS they are closer in line? (Regardless of whether Player A has started to expose?)
The rules are on the back of the card.
DeleteIf two players say "call" simultaneously (at the same time) before anyone has either picked up the discard and placed it on their rack or exposed tiles from their hand, the player next in line is entitled to the tile.
However, if one player says "call," (or "hold" or "wait") and another player has already claimed the discard by either placing the called tile on their rack or exposing tiles from their hand, then that player is too late to claim the tile. It has already been claimed.
A player may claim a discard by either picking up the called tile from the table and placing it on top of their rack and bringing up the matching tiles to complete the exposure OR taking the matching tiles from their hand and placing them on top of their rack and picking up the discard to join those tiles to make the complete exposure.
The window of opportunity for claiming the discard closes once a player has either the discard itself or its matching tile(s) on top of her rack.
You may tell your new players that the League considers it PREFERABLE to pick up the called tile first and place it on the rack, as it assures that the correct tile is claimed, however, it is permissible to call, expose the matching tiles and then pick up the discard. Either way closes the window.
You should tell them that "grabbing" the discard or "slamming" the tiles up is poor sportsmanship, and not encouraged. But you should also advise them to be alert and listening, watching the table and keeping in mind the tiles they need so that they may make a timely call.